Burn After Wearing
https://grist.org/international/burn-after-wearing-fashion-waste-chile/By onychomys at
banish-m4 | 4 comments | 3 weeks ago
BurningFrog | 6 comments | 3 weeks ago
This is huge progress compared to the old days, when many people only had one set of clothes, and had to wash them naked.
If the price for this is a lot of clothing trash, that seems a pretty great bargain to me.
GeoAtreides | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
Canada | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
GeoAtreides | 2 comments | 3 weeks ago
Not sure why that would be the case.
For example, consider if everyone had as much clothes as they need. Then only occasional replacements would suffice, which is a quantity significantly less the total amount required if each person lacked sufficient clothing.
Or consider some regulation: 97% of stock must remain on the shelves and sell before new stock is brought in. That will certainly put a break on fast fashion.
Also, define oversupply: +1%, 10%, 50%?
Canada | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
Clothes aren't totally fungible, after all. I think burning food is much worse. I know the big burning pile look bad there... but how big is it really? The article says between 11k - 59k tons. I'll go with the high end and assume 50k metric tonnes. Assuming 150 grams per item (weight of a tshirt) that's 6666 items per tonne, which is about 333 million items in the pile. In the grand scheme of things, it's not that much. I think 5% oversupply is probably a floor for clothes. Any less than that and we're looking at shortages at retail. Say 5 billion humans each own 50 kilograms of clothing, which is ridiculously low balling it, that's 250 billion tons. And I'm not even talking about our shoe supply here! It must take tens of millions of tonnes of production each year to sustain that, and it's not like it gets instantly teleported to the consumer.
If whoever owned that pile could get even 50 cents per piece for them, they probably would rather have taken the money. I think burning is probably wrong though, better it be dumped in pits and left there as is in case one day an economical way to use the material emerges in the future. I get the feeling to reduce waste, I really do, but I don't like your idea of regulation on this. It'll only deprive the poorer among us of access. I'm willing to accept some waste so that people on a tight budget can dress themselves with style and feel good.
Canada | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
icegreentea2 | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
The challenge is that clothes rapidly progress beyond "need" into "wants". Being "fashionable" is very roughly a human constant. One of the very very first things that we industrialized was textile and clothing production, and then we continued to keep facing fashion and clothing churn.
I think it would very challenging to regulate clothing into a strict need.
GeoAtreides | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
But, again, it's not a choice between no fashion and ultra fast fashion (sell 10% of stock and throw away the rest). We can make clothes that are more durable, more customizable, we can have regulate how fast should fast fashion be, and, of course, regulate how waste should be treated.
Btw, I bet if you throw all that waste in a chemical reactor with a hydrogen source you can revert it back to hydrocarbons. I'm not a chemical engineer and I might be wrong, of course.
tomjen3 | 3 comments | 3 weeks ago
The problem with most of the fast fashion is that the clothes don't last very long, at only a handful of uses, so its only cheaper if you need lots of different outfits. If you are hanging on by a thread, then you need cheap outfits that last for as long as possible.
the-grump | 5 comments | 3 weeks ago
dan-robertson | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
ZeroGravitas | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
bennyhill | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
That's not much morphing, the goal is to have clothes that are quickly obsoleted for people who can now immediately keep up with the trends. Those people can be a minority of their customers but buy far more by volume, don't wear clothes until they wear out, and need to dispose of out-of-date clothes. If they push enough consumers to fast fashion then there is a vast excess of used clothes that need to be thrown out.
jshorty | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
peebeebee | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
usrusr | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
padjo | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
taskforcegemini | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
AlecSchueler | 3 comments | 3 weeks ago
bboygravity | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
Also, let people tell stories however they feel like they want to tell them.
AlecSchueler | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
I'm not sure what your last remark is meant to imply but it feels quite rude. It's normal to be curious and ask people to expand on or clarify what they're saying, especially on a site where the main posting guidline is "intellectual curiosity." I don't appreciate your directive in this case, as I don't feel I was blocking anyone from sharing their story with the question I asked.
But, if we're being prescriptive, the term "women" is generally more accepted when talking about humans. "Females" is regarded by many as dehumanising.
portaouflop | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
I don’t think „society“ accepts an adult man who is dressed in rags either. At best people will think you’re some kind of hippie, at worst actively avoid you. In m experience does not apply if you are a student or below 30.
AlecSchueler | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
The expection for women to put more effort into their appearance than men is well understood. Do you disagree?
lotsofpulp | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
These sound like rags to me.
AlecSchueler | 2 comments | 3 weeks ago
lotsofpulp | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
It is or was very common to see men wearing clothing with tips and tears as a style choice, so I would not say men cannot get away with it. It just depends what the totality of the look is.
AlecSchueler | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
gosub100 | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
AlecSchueler | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
gosub100 | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
AlecSchueler | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
There's an interesting topic for discussion in regards to measuring social phenomenon and it feels out of keeping with site guidelines that you wouldn't engage on that basis but rather begin with complete dismissal.
gosub100 | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
AlecSchueler | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
Your comments have now become personal and derogatory and I am not willing to have a conversation like this at all, so I will do as you say and go away, or "shut the f up" as the other commenter said.
I'm not sure what gives you the right to tell me my views aren't welcome here. I've kept my comments within the site guidelines while you have not. Is this your personal echo chamber where others aren't welcome? The boys club where laughing about "females" goes ahead without comment? It must be that way since you targeted the single critical voice in a thread with at least 2 other examples of what you're ostensibly complaining about that you chose to ignore. You wouldn't even have the decency to respond to anything I said, again straight to dismissal and telling me to leave. So much for being challenged.
giantg2 | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
vasco | 2 comments | 3 weeks ago
giantg2 | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
oyashirochama | 2 comments | 3 weeks ago
vasco | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
AlecSchueler | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
TeMPOraL | 2 comments | 3 weeks ago
AlecSchueler | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
portaouflop | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
The problem is buying garbage in the first place.
giantg2 | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
Yes, in Europe this is no big deal. In the US there are very few shoe shops that will do this kind of work. When you find one, they typically charge a lot - $100+.
ryukafalz | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
giantg2 | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
jnellis | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
pjmlp | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
padjo | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
alecst | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
In any event, having all these clothes is just a part of life that we’ve gotten used to. I’ve never heard anyone complain about a lack of clothes or shoes unless they were suddenly deprived of them.
duxup | 6 comments | 3 weeks ago
I did a big remodel recently, I had a bunch of perfectly good hardware, an entire kitchen of appliances, cabinets, etc, and such items.
People told me all about "oh someone might use that", and I'd ask if they would use it, everyone said "no, not me". The local re-use non profits all had big lists of things they don't want, because nobody actually wants them.
alwa | 2 comments | 3 weeks ago
[0] https://renovationangel.com/ [1] https://www.habitat.org/restores/find-donate-building-materi...
teeray | 2 comments | 3 weeks ago
rblatz | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
shepherdjerred | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
toomuchtodo | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
cryptonector | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
giantg2 | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
Ironically I've been trying to sell a few brand new items that I don't need, like a keyboard and mouse, but nobody wants those.
banish-m4 | 2 comments | 3 weeks ago
duxup | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
I suspect too that the needy and poor are really the last people with the room and time to stash away a bunch of things they're not using but maybe one day someone will show up and install them... and hopefully they still work.
kardos | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
mindslight | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
ReStore has their niches, but overall there's a large feel good hopecycling dynamic as well. So many used furniture sets just sitting around indefinitely.
Exceptions of used things people seek out basically prove the rule - things that you can't get any more (solidly built, repairable appliances, wide lumber, etc), or vintage styles coming back around into fashion.
tomjen3 | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
gmac | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
Then most of the cabinets were taken away for free by a guy who was setting up his garage to brew beer, and some builders who were putting together a staff kitchen for a (presumably pretty penny-pinching) local business owner.
antisthenes | 2 comments | 3 weeks ago
Put them outside by the curb. If it's usable, it'll get picked up. Certainly working (and non-working) appliances would.
avery17 | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
duxup | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
Loughla | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
droopyEyelids | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
austhrow743 | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
XorNot | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
People tend to overestimate the costs of production versus recycling. You could easily spend, in terms of CO2, vastly more resources trying to sort, clean and ship around this stuff, rather then just setting the pile on fire - particularly if it's principally organically-derived fibers (cotton) and not synthetics.
banish-m4 | 4 comments | 3 weeks ago
The case of plastic bag recycling is outrageous deception.
codersfocus | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
o11c | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
After all, it is clearly in the glassmaker's best interests to run around breaking windows.
banish-m4 | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
I think it's just lazy corporate employees didn't know what else to do with large volumes of excess inventory.
beckingz | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
THIS IS INTENTIONAL.
lotsofpulp | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
The reason this works with clothing for some brands is that some utility of the clothing is in the signaling it provides to the humans wearing it, and the signaling comes from the scarcity of that type of clothing.
A clothes seller selling clothing that signals the wearer is able to afford a more scarce type of clothing is thus ruining their own products’ value proposition by decreasing the scarcity of the clothes.
That is why it might be better to destroy than see it on sale at TJ Maxx or Walmart or whatever cheap store.
Bottom line is clothes sellers are catering to what clothes buyers want. They are not stupid about how to operate their business.
And o11c’s comment about glass makers breaking windows is irrelevant since the glass maker does not own the window they are breaking, whereas a clothes seller owns the clothes they might be destroying.
bratwurst3000 | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
II2II | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
tgsovlerkhgsel | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
Even if it might be useful elsewhere, it isn't in that other place because it's so worthless that transporting it isn't worth it. "Would be" useful elsewhere just means "useless where it is".
Just like most of the stuff that Amazon gets criticized for throwing in the trash is likely either stuff that's unsafe or so worthless that the pallet-of-random-crap buyers don't want it.
monero-xmr | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
rl3 | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
Unfortunately:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecomafia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_of_death_(Italy)
https://www.vice.com/en/article/3b7m9n/the-mob-made-southen-...
https://www.vice.com/en/article/j59xap/europes-biggest-illeg...
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/jan/23/buried-...
monero-xmr | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
I have had a few weird situations with organized crime and my hunch is they are way, way bigger than society understands. Like the American Mafia was way too public, the FBI nailed them, and now the smart criminals just don’t exist in any form in the public consciousness. I think OC now exists as legitimate business but it’s just a few layers removed. So they might operate a doctors clinic, but the real point of it is to milk Medicare for scams, and things like this. But on paper it seems correct
lozenge | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
immibis | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
bugbuddy | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
dan-robertson | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
boopmaster | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
I appreciate that the article calls out the trash as being like an oil slick, which is a sticking point I think we all can be upset about, and use our agency to demand change.
Don’t buy plastic to wear. Tell manufacturers (brands) they are grotesque for using plastics in clothing.
xandrius | 2 comments | 3 weeks ago
Turns out to be extremely hard, borderline impossible in many countries (including US and EU).
It gets even worse if someone doesn't want to buy online and wants to find a local shop then the chances go even lower. I'm not I've seen an 100% cotton product in ages in a physical store.
djhn | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
Not to mention the clothes themselves last decades.
gedy | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
deadbabe | 6 comments | 3 weeks ago
skhunted | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
pjsg | 3 comments | 3 weeks ago
Trivia note: This movie has the longest opening tracking shot of any movie of the time (according to a film professor friend).
plastic3169 | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
deadbabe | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
autoexec | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
deadbabe | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
latentcall | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
ilaksh | 3 comments | 3 weeks ago
II2II | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
Toutouxc | 2 comments | 3 weeks ago
thfuran | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
oskarw85 | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
Toutouxc | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
deadbabe | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
gosub100 | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
Dalewyn | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yumenoshima
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yumeshima
(Both places' names translate to Dream Island.)
card_zero | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
amenhotep | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
userbinator | 7 comments | 3 weeks ago
lowdest | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
delichon | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
xpe | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
What happens if we assume the statement is true (as a thought experiment) and explore the ramifications? I see three key follow-up questions?
1. What valuation is implied by the above statement?
2. What do we mean by "waste"?
3. What are the salient differences between _burying_, _storing_, and _burning_?
Some answers to each:
1. It requires the future value, for some unbounded `t`, to exceed the present value. For this to be sensible, the cost of storage cannot dominate.
2. What is waste now is a function of our current economics* and technological level. Storing something indefinitely is an implicit bet that future changes to economics and/or technology will make recovery of item worth it relative to the cumulative storage and opportunity costs (including compounding).
3. In a broad sense, entropy. This applies to both the item stored (its internal state) and the energy required to locate it (i.e. location indexing). Put another way: entropy maps to more concrete concepts such as: cost of recovery, expected degradation, and ability to locate later.
* I don't mean to imply a narrow view of economics. What I actually mean is closer to the considerations from _political economy_.
xpe | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
novaleaf | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
justsid | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
xpe | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
downboots | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
peddling-brink | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
downboots | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
ilaksh | 5 comments | 3 weeks ago
RealityVoid | 2 comments | 3 weeks ago
If you bury it it's (relatively) inert and all stored neatly in one place. Whereas if you burn it you release it in the atmosphere, release carbon and probably not-so-great residues everywhere.
kzrdude | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/climate/sweden-garbage-us...
yumraj | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
Gare | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
ht_th | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
NoahKAndrews | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
dandy23 | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
its-summertime | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
A clothes wildfire is very much absolutely not that.
tgsovlerkhgsel | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
chriscappuccio | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
Beefin | 3 comments | 3 weeks ago
Complete Material Recovery: Every scrap of waste could be broken down at the molecular or atomic level and then reassembled into raw materials. This would be a perfect form of recycling where nothing is wasted, and materials are perpetually reused.
Energy Conversion: Garbage could be converted directly into clean energy through highly efficient processes, perhaps even approaching 100% energy conversion without any emissions or residues.
Biological Integration: Waste could be processed using engineered organisms or bio-systems that decompose or transform all types of waste into environmentally beneficial substances, like nutrients that support ecosystems rather than disrupt them.
Space Disposal: With no limitations, safe disposal methods could involve sending waste to the sun or other celestial bodies designed to safely contain or annihilate it without any impact on Earth or its environment.
is any company working on these solutions?
XorNot | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
No one needs this. These are all things people can do themselves.
adonovan | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
throwup238 | 0 comments | 3 weeks ago
Oh yeah, lots of people working on biological integration: https://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/lg/34130/imag...
It’s a competitive industry.