Scrabble star wins Spanish world title despite not speaking Spanish
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/10/scrabble-star-nigel-richards-wins-spanish-world-title-despite-not-speaking-spanishBy n1b0m at
Sophira | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
edmn | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
Suppafly | 13 comments | 3 weeks ago
zarzavat | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
That's half of it, the other prerequisite is that you have to be Nigel Richards.
n1b0m | 1 comment | 3 weeks ago
latentsea | 13 comments | 2 weeks ago
What kind of sorcery would even make that possible?
masfuerte | 3 comments | 2 weeks ago
"When he learnt to talk he wasn't interested in words, just numbers. I said: I know a game you're not going to be very good at because you can't spell very well and you weren't good at English at school."
I guess the sorcery you are looking for is spite.
stevage | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
vikingerik | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
Codenames is a word game. Scrabble is about arbitrary sequences of glyphs.
stevage | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
liquidise | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
Both philosophical and poetic. True brilliance.
username135 | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
teractiveodular | 3 comments | 2 weeks ago
It's still an insane feat, since it typically takes actual language learners years to get anywhere close to a native speaker's inventory of 10,000+ words.
michaelt | 2 comments | 2 weeks ago
But Nigel Richards? He's on another level: https://youtu.be/35rqRFXPWJo?t=143 knowing even exceptions to patterns and differences between dictionaries, for 9-letter words, in a game where players only have 7 letter-tiles.
BarryMilo | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
brookst | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
YawningAngel | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
https://isaak.net/mandarin/ is an example
edit: Isaak is great, but it was 22 words per day not 50
latentsea | 2 comments | 2 weeks ago
The claim here is memorizing a full dictionary in 9 weeks. That has to be at least 40,000 words in 63 days. 634 words per day. And then or forgetting it.
It's beyond rare. Its alien.
mb7733 | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
rightbyte | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
In school 35 words a day would be really pushing it for me. It had a really hard time learning English words. I had to study like an hour for 20 words to pass the test. But I learned grammar really fast.
latentsea | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
upmind | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
latentsea | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
I start by front loading all the grammar study up to upper-intermediate level as fast as possible. Usually a premade Anki deck of a few thousand sentences will be available for this.
Vocab I pick up from native media. I just read or watch whatever I'm interested in, lookup words as I go and put them into Anki. I do full immersion and it works well as access to entertainment in my target languages is a key goal.
Pronunciation I pick up through a crap tonne of exposure to native media.
Conversation is through a combination of private tutoring and finding people who speak my target languages to hang out with.
latentsea | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
If you don't actually know the meanings of the words, they may as well be random. What do you have to remember them by if you have no meaning to attach to them?
It's not even an insane feat. It's inhuman.
Towaway69 | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
Also if one takes character patterns (which words are) and attach other characteristics, such as number of occurrences of individual characters or use ascii numbering to convert to numbers, then these character patterns (aka words) might be simpler to memorise.
Meaning is only necessary if you intend to speak the language.
latentsea | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
If you're applying mnemonics to remember things then the act of doing so also takes time and energy. The issue here is the volume of information in the stated time span.
Towaway69 | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
Just a pity that there are so many regular humans.
latentsea | 2 comments | 2 weeks ago
Towaway69 | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
Also Nigel Richards probably doesn’t spend much time watching Netflix or shopping on Amazon. Probably very much focussed on scrambling.
A world where one in eight billion binge watches Netflix would truly be an interesting world!
latentsea | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
brookst | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
Towaway69 | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
ta_1138 | 3 comments | 2 weeks ago
So you arent' overestimating how long it takes to memorize words, but how useful having a good, normal vocabulary in the language actually is for being good at scrabble. Go look at guides for English scrabble, and see the words you are trying to memorize.
Panzer04 | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
BurningFrog | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
brookst | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
Actually, 99% may not even be achievable because sometimes your opponent will just luck out with letters and board lineup.
ASUfool | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
A key to high-scoring games is scoring "bingos" or using all 7 letters in a rack in a single turn as it gives a 50 point bonus. This is why we're taught to memorize the word lists that have such letters as TISANE in them as that string combines with most every other letter to make a bingo. The letters in TISANE are 1 point each.
You also don't want to leave vowels (all of which are worth 1 point each) adjacent to the bonus squares. A parallel play with an I under/to the right of a triple-letter-square can easily score 62 if one puts a Q on the triple and another I to make QI both ways.
vunderba | 2 comments | 2 weeks ago
tshaddox | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
zeroonetwothree | 2 comments | 2 weeks ago
dmurray | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
I think it would take Richards about 20 minutes to learn the Cyrillic alphabet and a few weeks to get familiar enough with the patterns of Russian to be a competitive player in that language. World champion is obviously a harder ask, but I wouldn't rule it out.
borski | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
thrance | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
vunderba | 2 comments | 2 weeks ago
In 9 weeks that's averaging memorizing several THOUSAND words PER DAY.
And don't give me BULL like "well plurality S/ES means a lot less" - yeah. NO. He still has to remember which words take what kind of plurality. And if you watch ANY interviews with him, you can tell he doesn't really take any shortcuts - he just straight-up memorizes them as a series of playable "tokens".
I'm all for the "indomitable human spirit" but you could practice 24/7 and you'd still be SCRABBLING at base camp while Nigel Richards summitted Everest without the aid of supplemental oxygen.
wongarsu | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
What he did is no small feat. You still have to memorize which suffixes are possible in which verbs (there are rules he would pick up on, but there are exceptions to the rules). But it is made easier by French verbs having a lot of possible suffixes, those suffixes being fairly regular, and English taking a lot of its "fancy" words with French (or adopting a Latin version that's close to what French adopted from Latin).
I still couldn't come close to thinking about achieving it. He is doing the extreme sport version of scrabble for sure.
And these advantages in French make it even more impressive that he could do the same even in Spanish.
Asraelite | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
BurningFrog | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
zem | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
mmmore | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
nkrisc | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
Onavo | 3 comments | 2 weeks ago
recursive | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
bee_rider | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
And I refuse to update my priors to account for the fact that somebody did it. Because I can’t even memorize the English scrabble dictionary well enough to enjoy playing. I am happier to live in a universe in which Scrabble is just impossible.
latentsea | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
stevage | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
lupire | 4 comments | 2 weeks ago
jjayj | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
Definitely worth a watch if you're interested in Scrabble at all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RvNxkQ6Bgs
vunderba | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
1. they can be useful at locking down the board
2. knowing all of the words is necessary to be able to challenge when somebody attempt to play a phony, which, as a native Spanish speaker, you might be even more inclined to try against a non-native speaker.
0cf8612b2e1e | 3 comments | 2 weeks ago
michaelt | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
Everyone knows words like "fork", "vogue" and "alligator" but only scrabble players know whether or not "forkier", "defork", "voguier", "voguiest", "alligatored" and "alligate" are real words.
vunderba | 2 comments | 2 weeks ago
The CSW is the official English word list used internationally (outside of the US/Thailand/Canada because we just HAD to be different) and contains over a quarter of a million words. Unless you're at the UPPER OF UPPER ECHELONS, there's a chance a crafty player could slip a phony in by hooking an "S" on the board or some other subtle stem - especially with the pressure of time controls.
numeri | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
borski | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
numeri | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
BurningFrog | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
johnmaguire | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
sionisrecur | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
1209412comb | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
latentsea | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
darepublic | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
numeri | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
DontchaKnowit | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
cainxinth | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
slibhb | 2 comments | 2 weeks ago
vunderba | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
If you're suggesting that a game feels less meaningful because its predisposed towards memorization, I'm not sure that leaves a lot of games left on the proverbial table for you.
Furthermore, there's quite a bit more to Scrabble strategy such as:
- balancing your rack
- the natural RNG from drawing tiles
- time pressure
- anagramming
I guess here's hoping you can start an international tournament of world champions for Snakes and Ladders, or Candyland?
More seriously, perhaps you'd enjoy Fischer Chess.
etrautmann | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
zem | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
enragedcacti | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
saghm | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
I have to imagine that at the highest levels play, people who are good at memorization will dominate regardless of fluency.
mkl | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
paulcole | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
labster | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
positr0n | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
You must develop a deep intuition for when to play the max scoring word you can find vs when to hold some letters in reserve in hopes of drawing even better hand next turn, etc.
ChrisRR | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
Etherlord87 | 2 comments | 2 weeks ago
dagw | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
wiether | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
If I give you eight random letters and ask you to create words with them; if it's in a language that you use daily, you'll first see the ones that you use the most, not the longest/more complicated ones. Whereas if they should be picked from a dictionary, I can see that it could be easier to find long/complicated words, since you won't have a notion of "popular" words.
lIl-IIIl | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
Also you need to memorize the different point values of the letters and different tile frequencies for Spanish or French.
ASUfool | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
And it's also acceptable to have a pre-printed scoresheet where one can track the letters that have been played so that would show the frequency of each.
Tracking helps one a lot at the end as you know what letters your opponent has and can adjust your play to suit. Of course, at most tournament level play, they have been tracking and know your final rack too.
interludead | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
croisillon | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
jc_811 | 4 comments | 2 weeks ago
For example, future tense in the 2nd person adds “ás” to the end of the verb. Pensar becomes pensarás. But, there are irregulars. You’d think the verb salir would be salirás (if you were memorizing), but it actually it saldrás
Seems like an incredible feat that goes beyond memorizing a dictionary. Unless Spanish scrabble maybe has specific rules around verb tenses and whatnot?
omegaham | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
karatinversion | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
jc_811 | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
mmmore | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
He has an incredible mind.
paulcole | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
They're not actually learning anything other than "_______ is an acceptable string."
So even if just "pensar" is in what you and I would call a "dictionary", the Scrabble-acceptable word list will contain every form of it.
munchler | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
bubblyworld | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
interludead | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
precommunicator | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
yzydserd | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
pvaldes | 6 comments | 2 weeks ago
My suggestion to this person would be to be much more ambitious with this life. He has the skills.
diggan | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
Probably would make it way easier if he decided he wanted to learn one of those languages, but just knowing words doesn't make you proficient in comprehension and be able to create sentences.
imzadi | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
ryandrake | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
Thorrez | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
What does this mean? Does learning multiple languages automatically make you famous? 43% of the world's population is bilingual.
mulmen | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
kingkongjaffa | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
mulmen | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
traitfield | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
talldayo | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
akudha | 2 comments | 2 weeks ago
ASUfool | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
boomboomsubban | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
akudha | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
boomboomsubban | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
Also, what are the communication rules during play? Does he at least need to know enough Spanish to be able to issue or respond to a challenge?
mihaic | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
moralestapia | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
This is pretty much the argument on why LLMs do not perform "reasoning" in the same way we do.
asimpleusecase | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
interludead | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
BrandoElFollito | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
2-3-7-43-1807 | 1 comment | 2 weeks ago
jerf | 0 comments | 2 weeks ago
If you study a language more distant from English than French, you'd be surprised at how even knowing all the meanings can still leave you pretty baffled at the meaning of a sentence.
You do have to get farther away from English than French though; I can still half-read French off of a 4-year "not all that great" study in high school, and that's more a testament to how knowing enough English to recall Latin roots we don't use in our main vocabulary and some of the most common French words that are different from English is enough to read an awful lot of French from an English start than any skill of mine. I tried half-a-dozen words in Google Translate to pick my example above before I finally found a word that was either different enough that it wasn't basically the same as it is in English ("ski" -> "ski"), or something with enough Latin roots that English also uses that a strong English speaker would have a pretty decent chance of guessing ("smelly" -> "malodorant").